vincent, Donnerstag, 21.07.2011, 21:53 (vor 3544 Tagen) In practice, if they share infrastructure integration is straightforward but pricing/organization often differs a lot discouraging these issues. http://www.bahn.de/p/view/mdb/bahnintern/broschueren/MDB91005-mobilitaetsbroschuere-110... 10 Minuten Takt als Standard für eine S-Bahn. Zurich is not a good example of your S-Bahn definition: There is no trunk. -;), Jogi, Freitag, 22.07.2011, 15:57 (vor 3543 Tagen) @ Thalyseo, Ne, ich meinte die Preise sollen vor und nach der S-Bahn Einführung verglichen werden. There was formerly and supposedly again will be a direct passage from the 30th Street MFSE station to the like-named mainline station. NIMBYs have made the new Hamburg Hanover line a nigh impossibility…, I mean it’s only one of the biggest ports in the world, no biggie. At the very least, have trains pass through Union Station rather than have them sitting idle all day long. There needs to be proper toilet-dumping facility at the maintenance yard, and the facility needs to be designed for the proper capacity. – via zu elektrifizierender „Eschweiler Schleife“ – und statt des RB 20-Flügels, und zugleich die S8 (= S-Bahn Rhein-Ruhr) ab M´Gladbach – statt RB 33 – bis Aachen Hbf. So unless they were already double track (or triple, retaining one for freight), it’s highly unlikely that BART could use them anyway, if the cost of upgrading the infrastructure to BART standards was the same as building a whole new line for BART. If anything, BART, with its low-profile, lightweight trains and low axle-loading, should be cheaper than mainline rail to construct. Kommt eine neue Stammstrecke, wäre eine zweite S-Bahnlinie bis Dachau (und weiter nach Altomünster) denkbar, da ab Dachau in der HVZ ja auch schon Takt 10 gefahren wird. Files are available under licenses specified on their description page. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. For instance, Hauptbahnhof to Gesundbrunnen is a single-seat journey on the Regionalbahn (but not on anything else), but the frequencies are never reliable enough for it to be used as a transit connection. Die Gemeinde Blankenfelde-Mahlow liegt am Verlauf der Bahnstrecke Berlin-Dresden. - S-Bahn in den meisten Fällen andere Spurweiten (Ausnahmen, die mir spontan einfallen, sind Rostock, Leipzig und Dresden), Es gibt in Deutschland keine S-Bahn, die nicht auf 1435mm fährt ;-), - Andere Energieversorgung der S-Bahn z.B. Ahead of schedule and budget. one is coming every 3 and a third minutes. Deutsche Bahns regional and local trains offer quick and cheap transport throughout Germanys regions. Does the line connect to important outlying destinations for which high speed would be especially beneficial. This is true now, but presumably in the 1960s when railroads were at their weakest, BART could’ve just bought the freight railroads outright and saved a lot of money not reinventing the wheel. There’s also the Sotetsu Link project, but that won’t really help city center since it just allows passengers to bypass the outer suburban transfer nodes but still dumps them at Shinjuku and Shibuya. There is a paved and marked walkway that leads visitors from the station to the airport in just five minutes. The Hamburg S-Bahn is a suburban commuter railway network in the Hamburg Metropolitan Region.Together, the S-Bahn, the Hamburg U-Bahn, the AKN railway and the regional railway form the backbone of railway public transport in the city and the surrounding area. I seem to recall this was a big driver for Odakyu’s 4 tracking project. Even if the individual branches run on a clockface schedule, people do not use the trunk as a scheduled railroad but rather show up and go continuously. Or it’s six tracked to Stamford and beyond. RE is “Regionalverkehr” (local services), ordered (and subsidized) by the Cantons. Wer in Corona-Zeiten mit der S-Bahn unterwegs ist, kann sich sicher und geschützt fühlen. Here’s a map of lines in the Bay Area (BART, commuter rail, freight): http://www.bayrailalliance.org/rail_101/. And very small amount of S-Bahn. Auch aus diesem Grund haben S-Bahntriebwagen dort es kaum über den Prototypenstatus hinausgebracht. Because you can’t mention S-Bahnen and American rail activists without summoning the spectre of Philadelphia…. If it often saves time to get off at an earlier stop, it’s likely to oftem save the same amount of time to get off a later stop, if origins and/or destinations are equally spread around the metro area. 4tph goes out to Toshimaen but 8tph come in from the Yurakucho Line, so you’ve basically added 4tph outbound from Nerima. RE1 Magdeburg Berlin Frankfurt(Oder) Cottbus ... S-Bahn. Moreover, the network layout is usually complementary with existing urban rail. Typically long distance trains are called Zug, while local trains are called S-Bahn, Regionalbahn, Stadtbahn, or similar. The single metro line is fully segregated, and there is some segregation between S-Bahn and longer-distance services, but this is far from complete. Frequent split/joint at Zushi sounds like very tricky due to the track layout. Heck, the LIRR doesn’t even meet its *current* service guidelines in diesel territory, and electrification beyond the current eastern limits is effectively dead. Urban rail lines rarely terminate at city center, and the same is true for S-Bahn lines. The Regionalbahn runs on mainline tracks, shared with intercity trains, so this is the big difference between the two in my mind. Die S-Bahn (S) setzt DB Regio vor allem im Stadtverkehr von Ballungsräumen ein. Would opening ICEs to intra Berlin travel on intra Berlin tickets help? Die S-Bahn Hamburg ist ein Eisenbahnsystem für den Personennahverkehr im Großraum Hamburg.Sie gehört mit der U-Bahn, der AKN und den Zügen des Regionalverkehrs zum Angebot des schienengebundenen Personennahverkehrs in der Hansestadt und ihrem Umland. There will always be better value mega projects. What is your threshold for calling a city large? The ICEs don’t come that regularly either, do they? Even nominally single-core metro regions often have significant independent centers with long separate histories. On the one hand Berlin S-Bahn didn’t and it would limit capacity for no appreciable gain to install them, on the other hand some S-Bahn systems are hundreds of kilometers long. Regional day ticket for North Rhine-Westphalia: All local and regional buses and trains in North Rhine-Westphalia. Given that a BART car has about the same loading gauge as an Amtrak car, doing what Vancouver did and attempting to squeeze two tracks into a single track ROW is pretty much impossible. natürlich (;-)) sind nur Berlin und Hamburg echte S-Bahnen: eigenes Vollbahnnetz mit dichtem Taktverkehr, das eigen bleibt, wegen der Stromversorgung. trains stopping every 1 km, 5 km, 10 km, and 50 km], there needs to be overtake facilities at strategic locations, but with standing overtakes, all of these can be a platform-length sidings, which cost significantly less than continuous triple/quad-track section). Terrible. In cities whose rail stations are terminals, such as Paris, Munich, Frankfurt, and Stuttgart, there are dedicated tunnels for through-service; London is building such a tunnel in Crossrail, and built one for Thameslink, which has the characteristics of a hybrid. That’s the 13th largest city in the country with a population of more than half a million. The Economy class wagons offer plenty of room for traveller, additional amenities in the First class or special offers, comfort and service in the Business Class.. First class Your pamper compartment. “smaller cities, […] for example […] Hanover” S-Bahn — як правило скорочення від нім. Many passengers take the S2 which also stops only once on the way (Oerlikon) which makes any insights hard to transfer to other cities. fjk, Freitag, 22.07.2011, 09:16 (vor 3543 Tagen) @ NIM rocks. Easiest to deal with the clearances on the 63rd St. Even less than 9 out 10, someday in the future, if I’m on a Wall Street branch and want to go to a Penn Station branch. All structured data from the file and property namespaces is available under the Creative Commons CC0 License; all unstructured text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License; additional terms may apply. But in New York, this is the only way to guarantee good regional rail service; anything else would involve short- and long-range trains getting in each other’s way at Penn Station. ein Beispiel wäre die damalige neue S-Bahn von Karlsruhe nach Grötzingen, die erste S-Bahn, die vom Stadtzentrum auf Straßenbahngleisen dann auf DB-Bahngleisen weiterfuhr - die Immobilienpreise und vor allem auch Mieten sind dort in die Höhe explodiert... Redesign, Freitag, 22.07.2011, 01:09 (vor 3544 Tagen) @ vincent. ... aber im Linienbetrieb nicht bewirtschaftet. Maaaaaaaybe? Fahrradmitnahme ist eigentlich in beiden Produkte möglich. the pre-shinkansen Tohoku), following a parallel HSR system (with a few express trains, that are mostly for people making 100 km trips, to speed up them a bit). Yeah, there’s one sense in which this distinction gets weird in very large cities: the branch points are really far out, like Hicksville or Tachikawa, so you can have a long trunk like an S-Bahn but then the branching and overall range of a RegionalBahn. >Badische-Zeitung<. Accordingly, acceleration and dwell times are of lesser concern which is reflected in the rolling stock used. Regionalbahnen halten auch öfter an (der ICE von Wuppertal nach Berlin hält ganze 5x und braucht knapp 4 Stunden - ich möchte nicht wissen, wie lange die Fahrt mit Regionalzügen dauern würde. Into every life some rain must fall, if you want to go to Grand Central, change trains. Whyyyyyyy is the frequency on the Yokosuka Line so low? Anyways the only place where the wind thing would have matter would be across the Golden gate to Marin. Als in den Hochzeiten des Berliner S-Bahn-Chaos' vermeintliche S-Bahn-Züge aus anderen Netzen zur Entlastung durch den mit Oberleitung bespannten Nord-Süd-Fernbahntunnel fuhren, hat die hier niemand so recht ernst genommen. However Zug can also be used in the context of S-Bahn, U-Bahn, when referring to a specific train or to technical terms, e.g. bei dieser Besiedlungsstruktur einfach keinen Sinn machen. There are 6-14 stations on the trunks in the examples to keep in mind, often spaced toward the high end for rapid transit so as to provide express service through city center, and all trains make all stops, running every 3-5 minutes all day. noch Karlsruhe (eher Stadtbahn) sowie die "Breisgau-S-Bahn" (Diesel). Several German S-Bahns have little or no interlining with mainline trains, so this is really a distinction without a difference. eine bestehende Strecke mit einem zusätzlichen Gleis und/oder Stromschiene auszurüsten. But you’re absolutely right about the issue of reliable frequency, and I wish I’d expressed this more clearly. Running local from New Haven to Trenton would take almost four hours. Like other major private railway lines in Tokyo (except Seibu Shinjuku Line and Keio Line), they maintain 8tph local service on the main line in inner suburb. Dieses System gibt's nur in Berlin. That said, it’s worth understanding the two different ends of this spectrum to figure out what the priority for rail service should be in each given city. In New York, the situation is the most complicated, befitting the city’s large size and constrained location. Eine S-Bahn ist eine elektrisch betriebene Eisenbahn, die in Großstädten und in ihrem Umland für den Personentransport verkehrt. I seem to recall that on the “private” railways (like Tobu, Seibu, Tokyu, Odakyu, etc) this resulted in massive congestion at the subway’s actual “terminal” where passengers on the express were changing to already crowded locals since they wanted to go to where the subway went. durchziehen. For Walkability and Good Transit, and Against Boondoggles and Pollution, I talked about this dilemma in Boston’s context in 2012, I call for complete through-running in New York, https://www.j-cast.com/tv/2013/04/26174019.html?p=all, http://www.mlit.go.jp/common/001299668.pdf, https://tetsudoulab.com/yokosuka-konzstsu-asa/, Stuttgart 21’s Impending Capacity Problems and Timed Connections | Pedestrian Observations, The Different Travel Markets for Regional Rail | Pedestrian Observations, Empire State High- and Low-Speed Rail | Pedestrian Observations, What Europe Can Learn From Asia | Pedestrian Observations, Some Notes About Northeast Corridor High-Speed Rail | Pedestrian Observations, The Limits of Regional Rail | Pedestrian Observations, When Should Cities Separate Short- and Long-Range Commuter Rail? Meh. And only one exclusively for S-Bahn throughrunning, used by half the lines. ( Log Out / durch eine Stromschiene. IR is Interregio, and it stops only at regional centers. That’s why in recent years the private lines have gone to great lengths to bring some express trains onto the subway (see Odakyu’s 4 tracking program, the F-Liner service on the Fukutoshin Line). This page was last edited on 2 March 2015, at 08:44. I guess they need to get their balance sheet right before making their stocks available at Tokyo Stock Exchange. 622661 Einträge in 44404 Threads, 1901 registrierte Benutzer, 141 Benutzer online (2 registrierte, 139 Gäste), bearbeitet von vincent, Donnerstag, 21.07.2011, 21:54, bearbeitet von RhBDirk, Donnerstag, 21.07.2011, 22:05, bearbeitet von NIM rocks, Freitag, 22.07.2011, 00:29, bearbeitet von Jogi, Freitag, 22.07.2011, 00:29, bearbeitet von NIM rocks, Freitag, 22.07.2011, 01:07, http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regionalbahn. I forgot to mention that there’s also a flat junction at where the Shonan Shinjuku and Yokosuka lines split near Osaki station, that causes plenty of headaches and AFAIK there’s no plan for now to grade separate it. In Tokyo even this distinction is blurred, as most subway lines connect to commuter rail lines at their ends, often branching out. ), which, as in Switzerland, is under full responsibility of DB. The outer branches only run every 15-20 minutes, so as Nilo says it would definitely be possible to share those with other trains. It’s too much capacity in the wrong places. In vielen Städten fahren Züge beider Bahnen durch Tunnel, doch auf der einen prangt ein S, auf der anderen ein U. You want to rearrange this so people get Wall Street, not 10th and 42nd or Hoboken. MET - Der beste Zug den es je gab, vincent, Freitag, 22.07.2011, 11:21 (vor 3543 Tagen) @ Jogi, Danke für deine super aüsführliche und verständlich erklärte Anleitung. Munich S-Bahn (bahasa Jerman: S-Bahn München) adalah sistem jaringan angkutan cepat kereta listrik yang terdapat di Munich, Jerman. Diese sind die Grundversorgung des allgemeinen Überlandeisenbahnnetzes, da sie überall halten. Stellenweise fährt sie dort auch als Ersatz für Regionalbahnen, etwa raus nach Freudenstadt oder zwischen Pforzheim und Bietigheim sowie Bad Wildbad. If you have a valid ticket, you can take any train between Genève Aéroport and Genève Cornavin. However, Providence benefits from lying on the Northeast Corridor, which can provide such service if the regional trains are somewhat slower; this is the main justification for adding a handful of infill stops on the Providence Line. - die S-Bahn Linie A in München (Dachau-Altomünster), 2x628. But perhaps the best example of a regional rail network that really takes on lines of both types is that of Tokyo. – Daily volume of passengers using Tokyu Shibuya Station decreased by 30,000 (http://economic.jp/?p=37371). Line 2: New Jersey to ARC Alt + Grand Central to Highbridge/New Haven Finally IC/ICN/EC are expresses, stopping only at major centers. The bus network maps show the local bus routes and the respective transfer options to the RegionalExpress, RegionalBahn and S-Bahn routes as well as to the VRS city railway lines. Speaking of on-board bathroom, there are some rural lines in JR West territory where there are scheduled “bathroom break” for passengers at some station stops built into the timetable. DB ist die Marke, die über allem steht, ICE, IC, RB, und S-Bahn sind einzelne Produkte : InterCityExpress und Intercity gehören zum Fernverkehr, die ReionalBahn und die S-Bahn zum Regionalverkehr. Bei der derzeitigen Situation (eine Stammstrecke) wird es wohl eher auf eine Flügelung der S2 in Dachau hinauslaufen. Weitere Haltepunkte in Dahlewitz sind in Planung. The ICN has disappeared in Switzerland, having been folded into the IC a while ago. Actually fully building Hs2 first, new express lines Across the North and new regional lines across the South East, plus Crossrail 2 plus many schemes to increase commuting capacity into the big 8 regional cities. Kai_ME, Null-zwo-elf, Freitag, 22.07.2011, 10:41 (vor 3543 Tagen) @ fjk, GUB, Bremen, Freitag, 22.07.2011, 11:10 (vor 3543 Tagen) @ fjk, Schöner Beitrag, dank dir komm ich auch im ICE-Treff zum Lachen :) In NRW/Rhein-Ruhr inkl. Huntington to Penn is 34 route-miles, Ronkonkoma to Penn is 48 miles, a hypothetical electrified service to Port Jefferson would be 58 miles, as is Trenton to Penn. The way Kintetsu operates their passenger rail service could be one of the best example of “strail” of the world. In Paris, the distinction between Transilien and the RER is about whether there is through-running, and thus some lines that are RegionalBahn-like are branded as RER, for example the entire RER C. Moreover, with future extension plans, the RER brand will eventually take over increasingly long-distance regional service, for example going east to Meaux. Deutschlands beliebtestes Reise- und Mobilitätsportal: Auskunft, Bahnfahrkarten, Online-Tickets, Länder-Tickets, günstige Angebote rund um Urlaub und Reisen. RE is RegionalExpress (your inter-city service), ordered and subsidized by the Land. Balance this against the number of passengers that could be carried on those train paths on domestic routes into London, and well the money will never add up. And still an awful lot of trains going out 50-100 km. Da ich sehe, dass das Reizwort hier aus dem Kontext gerissen ist: einigen der Überlegungen ums Reizwort drum rum kann ich trotzdem durchaus zustimmen. Line 7: Ronkonkoma or Huntington to Floral Park Express to Lower Montauk to GCT to Times Sq. Alon would probably love to split the Ueno-Tokyo Line and Shonan-Shinjuku/Saikyo Line networks, but I can imagine, for example, a mass exodus to Keikyu if the Yokosuka Line lost its through trains to Tokyo Station, which may not make him popular in JR East Towers…. Weirdly, through the end of the last decade, SEPTA was pursuing restoration of service to Reading through its Schuylkill Valley Metro projects, but in the form of a light rail system that in some iterations would have been street-running in Center City. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-Bahn. ICE-T-Fan, Freitag, 22.07.2011, 23:44 (vor 3543 Tagen) @ vincent. Arguably, a Regionalexpress stops not just at regional centers but at any station with significant traffic—less stops than a local, more stops than IR/IRE. The S-Bahn is an evolution of a suburban railway. Anyway, your point stands that Rhine-Main is a multicentered metropolitan region with a total population of 5.8 million. For example, their Kanto area service is loosely mashed into Fukushima area service at the northern end of the Kanto and into Tokaido corridor service in Shizuoka region operated by JR Central at the southeastern end of the Kanto, and the Shizuoka region service is interlined with Nagoya region service. Sehr schön zu sehen ist dies derzeit auch in München, dort würde man auch gerne auf mehreren Außenästen zusätzliche Regionalzüge fahren (beispielsweise München-Freising), aber nachdem die S-Bahn München Narrenfreiheit hat, wird alles der S-Bahn untergeordnet. So a standard-gauge BART that bought out freight railroads outright in the 1960s (while they were declining) could easily be a decent regional/intercity system linking Stockton and Sacramento to the Bay Area, and even with BART existing it’s a good enough idea that we’re going to do it anyways in 2019. However, if the suburban service has low frequencies, say less than 4 tph, lavatories should be provided. . But I don’t know to what extent this impacts Hamburg-Hanover specifically. Seat reservations are not very common in Switzerland (except for groups). Die S-Bahn hingegen fährt vielerorts auf denselben Gleisen wie Fern-, Regional- und Güterzüge. Downtown Providence is the largest job center served by the MBTA outside Boston; the city ranks third in New England in number of jobs, behind Boston and Cambridge and ahead of Worcester and Hartford. So total 16tph, 10 go to Tokyo Station and 6 to Shinjuku. The dirty little secret of NJTransit to Grand Central is that people will have to change trains, all of the trains can’t all go to Grand Central. Das ist gar nicht so einfach zu beantworten, denn gerade bei den S-Bahn-Netzen gibt es große Unterschiede. Weil man den Leuten da aber das Umsteigen zum Jungfernstieg ersparen möchte, lässt man die Bimmelbahn, die nach da auch im Bimmelbahntakt verkehrt, in der Stadt eben auf die S-Bahn-Gleise und direkt zum Arbeits-/Einkaufsplatz fahren (so wie man in Karlsruhe die Regionalbahn aus Heilbronn auf die Straßenbahngleise fahren lässt). [Currently, Babylon gets 14 tph at peak.] Und dann noch Gleichstrom, was ja eigentlich keiner will. Die Regionalbahn (RB) ist lediglich die Nachfolgezuggattungsbezeichnung der Personenzüge (P oder N; Zugnummern früher ohne Zuggattungskürzel). Andersrum kann man sagen: weil sich eine echte S-Bahn nach Stade oder Buxtehude eben nicht lohnt. Or attempt to open standard-gauge DMU extensions down freight corridors because BART technology is too expensive. But Marin pulled out years before they ever laid any track. With electricity since the 30s. To make the ultimate “strails” happen, I believe integration of service and fare structure between services catering different travel markets (intra-city, regional, and intercity) is absolutely necessary. Sieht man z.B. Aber der Kniff mit der Regio-S-Bahn ist natürlich geschickt, auch wenn ich das Wort nicht schön finde. The solution is to get people in Eastern Queens and Western Nassau off the subway. Die Diskussion S-Bahn vs. RB finde ich sehr gut und möchte hierfür exemplarisch auf folgendes Beispiel anführen: Die „S-Bahn Köln“ – sofern diese nicht eher als reine Marke denn Ableger der S-Bahn Rhein-Ruhr bezeichnet werden müsste – ist für mich das so ziemlich dubioseste S-Bahn-Netz überhaupt. Ich werde mal gucken,ob ich das Magzin irgendwo auftreiben kann. I relate this with your recent post about “stroads” and “strails” concept. Also, there are no other regional trains, only Interregios and above. Beides besser als die S-Bahn-Marke mit Stundentakten zu verwässern. Im Ruhrgebiet und anderen benachbarten Ballungszentren überschneiden sich die S-Bahnen und Regionalbahnen in ihrer Funktion und Bedeutung. S2 S Blankenfelde S Bernau. This really boils down to two questions: In Boston, the answer to question 1 is for the most part no. Dankeschön. Was in Berlin Krise war (20 Minuten Takt) ist woanders ja noch nicht einmal HVZ ;), 218 466-1, Red Bank NJ / ex-Ingolstadt, Freitag, 22.07.2011, 01:31 (vor 3544 Tagen) @ Jogi, Ja, ab Dezember 2018 hat es sich zwischen Freiburg und Breisach sowie zwischen Neustadt (Schw.) Their non-rail businesses (vertical shopping malls and department stores) generates significant amount of revenue (though the fare revenue generates profit by itself). – Isetan Department Store in drew 120 percent more customers after Fukutoshin-Tokyu Toyoko through running began (https://www.j-cast.com/tv/2013/04/26174019.html?p=all). Meine Erfahrung mit allem was ich über solche Untersuchungen gelesen und gehört habe, ist der Bodenpreis aber so vielen Faktoren unterlegen und durch die geringe Anzahl verkaufter, gleichwertiger Grundstücke so fragil, dass man solche Rückschlüsse verlässlich nicht erzielen kann.
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